Het is nu do maart 28, 2024 11:39 pm




Forum gesloten Dit onderwerp is gesloten, je kunt geen berichten wijzigen of nieuwe antwoorden plaatsen  [ 54 berichten ]  Ga naar pagina Vorige  1, 2, 3, 4
Misdadigers en criminelen bij de Fallschirmjäger? 
Auteur Bericht
zoon van piet
Bericht 
Zo leer je nog eens wat...


za aug 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Nicodemus
Bericht 
zoon van piet schreef:
NIGHTWALKER schreef:
Dat ze in de Sovjet-Unie het onderspit moesten delven is niet meer dan normaal, dit was het lot van alle aan Duitsland gelinkte troepen.
Maar ze profileren als een krimineel zootje ongeregeld gaat me toch te ver.

...-


Maar de Russen schijnen uitgerekend de FJ als minderwaardige infanterie te hebben beschouwd. Ze probeerden juist in de sectoren die door de FJ verdedigd werden, door te breken.


Voor de Russen bleef het dan ook meestal bij proberen. De Fallschirmjäger hebben naast Monte Cassino vooral in Rusland hun magnifieke defensieve prestatie neergezet. De felheid en expertise van hun verdediging was zonder twijfel een van de beste van WOII. Hoewel de Fallschirmjäger na Kreta en Noord-Afrika hun offensieve capabiliteiten grotendeels verloren, bleven zij tot het eind van de oorlog gevreesde verdedigers.
Twee redenen waarom de FJ juist in Rusland zeer geschikt waren voor defensieve gevechten:
1. De lichte bewapening van de FJ-eenheden gaf hen de mogelijkheid om zich juist in slechte weersomstandigheden en door moelijk navigeerbaar terrein heel snel voor te bewegen. Wegen werden snel verstopt met verkeer of onbegaanbaar gemaakt door de rasputitsa, terwijl de FJ er met hun snelmarsen om heen konden trekken, door dichte bossen of over zwaar besneeude vlakten met skis.
2. Het hoge gehalte anti-tank wapens in FJ-eenheden gaf hen een grote slagkracht tegen de hordes Russische T-34s. PaK-40s, Panzerschrecks, Panzerfausten, talloze anti-tank granaten en lichte 75 & 105mm terugstootloze kanonnen van slechts 160 kg maar met een bereik van bijna 7 kilometer.

Een tekst over de gevechten rond Kirovograd en Zhitomir in de winter van '43/'44, waar de 2. FJD bij betrokken was:
''In early November the 2nd Parachute Division was ordered to move from their base in Italy to Russia, although they were 3 Battalions short due to other commitments in southern Europe. The division was to take up positions near the Russian held town of Zhitomir and contain any further enemy advances.
The bulk of the Division arrived in its sector between 17th-27th November 1943 under the command of General Gustav Wilke. It was subordinated to 42nd Korps and took up positions east of Zhitomir. The Paras were to relieve the 1st SS Panzer Division. The Fallschirmjäger began to familiarize themselves with the terrain by assisting the SS in an operation to clear a wooded area near Radomsyl.
This assault started early on the 29th November, it met heavy Soviet resistance and was hampered by bad weather of the third winter of Barbarossa.
The next day, a Kampfgruppe from the 2nd Parachute Division started their attack on the Belka woods. The assault was successful in overcoming the stiff Russian resistance. By the evening of the 1st December 1943, one day ahead of schedule, the 2nd & 7th Parachute Regiments had taken over responsibility of the sector from the 1st SS.
The small German gains in the area began to worry the Soviet High Command. A large Russian force was assembled north east of Zhitomir with the aim of smashing through the German defences and making for the River Dniester further west.
Men of the 2nd Para took part in the defence of this German line. Wave after wave of Russian Infantry were mowed down by concentrated MG and mortar fire. Advancing Russian panzers were destroyed in their columns by tank busting units. The Russians determined to strive for the Dniester were undeterred by their huge losses.
The German forces managed to plug the gaps created by the Soviet advance and even went on the offensive to drive Russian forces back to the River Dnieper.
Further south at Kremechug, Russian forces broke through the German line held by Army Group A. The 2nd Parachute Division was airlifted on December 15th and flown to Kirovgrad, 80 miles south of Cherkassy (on the River Dnieper).
They were immediately put into the line at Klinzy, several miles south west of Kirovgrad backed by the 11th Panzer Division and the 286th SP Brigade. The 7th Parachute Regiment was to benefit from the SP support when it would counter attack on a 4 mile front in the Kamenka valley.
When the assault opened on the 16th December the Fallschirmjäger managed some minor gains, knocking out several Russian tanks in the process. The assault faltered later that day due to bad weather. The 17th was spent regrouping forces and preparing for the renewal of the assault on the 18th December.
The first objectives on the 18th were 2 hills heavily defended by Russian troops. All through the day the Paras pounded the hills with artillery, mortar and MG fire. They successfully took one hill in the evening of the 18th, the second fell early on the 19th.
Their main objective of Novgorodka could not be taken in accordance with their schedule, the SP guns were pulled out of the line for servicing. The 7th Regiment would have to wait until the 21st December to renew their attack.
The Russians reinforced the town of Novgorodka and the surrounding hills and when the attack resumed on the 21st the Russian defences were too strong for the Fallschirmjäger to crack. The Russians were determined to hold the town, no matter the cost in men and material. They threw in thousands of men into the battle only to be mowed down by the Paras. The advance started to falter and by the 23rd December the 7th Parachute Regiment was on the defensive but firmly held on to their weakened line. The Russians could not break through no matter what they threw at it.
Early in January 1944, the Russians renewed their operations against the 2nd Parachute Division and 286th SP Brigade in southern Russia.
The 2nd Regiment and the 1st Battalion, 5th Parachute Regiment held a sector around the town of Plavny near Novorodka, either side of the Kirovgrad highway.
Early on the 5th January the Russians began their offensive against positions held by the 1st Battalion, 5th Regiment. Within half an hour a whole regiment of T-34's had been destroyed with minimal losses to the SP Brigade.
The line held by the 2nd Battalion, 2nd Regiment was broken in several locations as massed Russian armour broke through the weak line. Russian tanks broke through east of Plavny and the remaining reserve SP artillery pieces were rushed in to halt the advance. Many T-34's were destroyed by individual acts of heroism using mines, satchel charges and panzerfaust's.
The 2nd Battalion, 5th Regiment was mostly destroyed as massed Russian forces swept over their positions north of the Kirovgrad highway.
The survivors were rescued by several SP guns who broke through the Russian forces, whereafter they successfully withdrew (although it was several days before they turned up at the Divisions lines).
Late on the 5th, the SP Brigade was ordered to Ruptschina where the Russians had managed to cut the Kirovgrad-Novorodka highway. As they neared their objective they came across a Russian tank unit in the process of being refuelled. The SP guns along with their Fallschirmjäger passengers successfully destroyed them. By the 6th January, the 7th, 5th and 2nd Regiments had been forced to pull out of the Novorodka area due to mounting Russian pressure.
They managed to hold a line outside of Kirovgrad denying the Russians this objective. On the 12th January the survivors of the 2nd Battalion. 5th Regiment were returned to Germany as they had ceased to exist as a fighting formation.
After the intense fighting around Novorodka, the front around Kirovgrad slipped into stalemate. The remaining guns of the 286th SP Brigade were transferred elsewhere on the Eastern Front.
The lull in the fighting lasted until March when Russian forces around Kiev struck southwards toward the 2nd Division's positions. The Paras took up positions around the town of Svenigovodka. They had to withdrawal under pressure from enemy armour. They were kept on the retreat by the ever advancing Red Army and by the last week of March had been forced across the River Bug where they set up defensive positions on the opposite bank. These positions were abandoned by the Paras by the end of March.
During April 1944 the battle weary remnants of the 2nd Parachute Division were pulled out of the line for a short spell of rest and refitting. This was short lived, they were back in action on the 10th May when they were to contain a Russian bridgehead on the River Dniester.
They suffered heavy casualties during this action and their ranks had been severely depleted. At the end of May the Division was transferred back to Germany for some serious rest and refitting. It was the last time that the 2nd Parachute Division would see action on the Eastern Front. Several weeks later they were thrown into Normandy. ''


Over de FJ-divisie die aan het eind van de oorlog werd vernietigd, dat was de 9. Fallschirmjäger-Division. De divisie werd ingezet in de verdediging van de Seelow-hoogtes ten oosten van Berlijn, in midden april 1945.

''In mid April the 9th Parachute Division was used to help contain a Russian bridgehead that had been formed on the western bank of the River Oder. They were rushed into action from their area further north.
On the 16th April 1945 the Red Army launched their major offensive to take Berlin. The 9th Division found itself caught up in the most intense artillery barrage of the war so far. The Soviet war machine rolled over the 9th's positions wiping out the 2nd Battalion, 27th Regiment and the 3rd Battalion, 26th Regiment. The remainder of the Division pulled back only to be overpowered by Soviet armour that managed to break up the formation.
The 26th Regiment found themselves being flung back in a north westerly direction, the 25th Regiment withdrew back towards northern Berlin, the remainder of the Division became subordinated to the 61st Panzer Korps and found itself in the southern outskirts of Berlin.
By late April Berlin was completely surrounded by the Russians, who were reducing the pocket of resistance in the city day by day. The remnants of the 9th within the city withdrew to the central district, where they aided other splinter groups of SS, Hitler Youth and Volkssturm units to defend the Führer Bunker and surrounding ministry buildings.
All defence was in vain, on the 2nd May 1945, General Karl Wiedling surrendered the city to the Russians and the remnants of the 9th Parachute Division went into Soviet captivity.
The 26th Regiment, not involved in the fighting for Berlin ended the war fighting the Allies in Schleswig-Holstein, Northern Germany.
Breslau was a city some 200 miles south east of Berlin, it had been turned into a fortress in accordance with the Führer's Festung Befehl (fortress order) and was to be defended to the last man and the last bullet like so many before it.
The 2nd Battalion, 25th Regiment was flown into the city on the 28th February to reinforce the garrison. The city had been surrounded since the 12th January and the Germans knew the city could not fall into Russian hands as it would be used as a springboard into Berlin. Within a few weeks the 3rd Battalion, 25th Regiment was also airlifted into Breslau as the need for reinforcements became more urgent. As Soviet forces moved in, Breslau turned into a battle ground. The defenders managed to hold out until the 6th May, 4 days after Berlin surrendered. The last remnants of the 9th shared the same fate as their comrades. ''


Raadpleeg voor meer informatie deze uitstekende site over Fallschirmjäger: http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/

*Waar ik overigens het volgende vond:
''The 7. Flieger-Division carried out many probing missions behind enemy lines to reconnoitre the build up of Soviet forces facing them. Also during October 1942 they carried out small scale aggressive actions on Russian positions. The actions of the 7th Airborne paid off as the Soviets chose not to attack their sector but chose those defended by weaker German forces. '' :wink:


ma aug 28, 2006 11:50 am
zoon van piet
Bericht 
Bedankt voor de info.
Zo leer ik weer eens dat boeken soms niet kloppen.


ma aug 28, 2006 3:58 pm
Leo
Bericht 
Toch bewonderenswaardige prestaties die deze mannen neerzetten en volledig in de geest van hun parachutistenopleiding. Licht bewapend, mobiel en verrassend uit de hoek komend.


ma aug 28, 2006 7:59 pm
zoon van piet
Bericht 
Ja, alle respect.
Des te vreemder is het dat ze in mei 1940 bij de vliegvelden rond Den Haag -Ypenburg, Ockenburg en Valkenburg- een behoorlijke nederlaag leden tegen het toch niet al te beste Nederlandse leger.


ma aug 28, 2006 10:42 pm
Firefly
Bericht 
Wat kunnen we na al deze informatie concluderen over het antwoord op de vraag van dit topic? Namelijk, waren er misdadigers en criminelen (militair of burgerlijk) gelegerd bij de Fallschirmjäger?


di aug 29, 2006 1:37 pm
Leo
Bericht 
Het is nergens bewezen dar er WEL criminelen gerekruteerd werden.
Buiten het gezegde van die museumgids.
Waar ik toch mijn twijfels bij heb.

Dus ??????


di aug 29, 2006 7:32 pm
Firefly
Bericht 
Daar heb je gelijk in. Wat we wel kunnen concluderen is, zoals eerder in dit topic aangegeven, dat er militaire gevangenen uit strafkampen bij de Fallschirmjäger gelegerd waren. Wat we niet kunnen vaststellen is of dit ook voor burgerlijke gevangenen zo het geval was. Er zullen beslist Fallschirmjägers geweest zijn die ooit een vorm van een misdaad begaan hebben, maar daardoor niet meteen misdadigers of criminelen waren. Aangezien niemand ooit van het verhaal gehoord heeft kunnen we in mijn ogen aannemen dat het verhaal toendertijd verzonnen is. Het verhaal zal waarschijnlijk bij die man die het me vertelde plaatselijk zijn ronde hebben gedaan. Verder nog bedankt voor jullie informatie.


wo aug 30, 2006 11:38 pm
Leo
Bericht 
Om een ietwat duidelijker beeld te krijgen van de Fallschirmjäger :

Zoek eens onder de naam" Robert Frettlohr" op Google.

Een heel opmerkelijk verhaal.


wo sep 06, 2006 11:26 am
Geef de vorige berichten weer:  Sorteer op  
Forum gesloten Dit onderwerp is gesloten, je kunt geen berichten wijzigen of nieuwe antwoorden plaatsen  [ 54 berichten ]  Ga naar pagina Vorige  1, 2, 3, 4


Wie is er online

Gebruikers op dit forum: Geen geregistreerde gebruikers. en 9 gasten


Je mag geen nieuwe onderwerpen in dit forum plaatsen
Je mag niet antwoorden op een onderwerp in dit forum
Je mag je berichten in dit forum niet wijzigen
Je mag je berichten niet uit dit forum verwijderen

Zoek naar:
Ga naar:  
cron
Alle rechten voorbehouden © STIWOT 2000-2012. Privacyverklaring, cookies en disclaimer.

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group