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Otto Skorzeny 
Auteur Bericht
Harro
Bericht Otto Skorzeny
[edit barry] Dit topic is een afsplitsing van http://www.tweede-wereldoorlog.nl/forum ... c.php?t=36 [/edit]

druidebaron schreef:
Otto Skorzeny werd door de geallieerden "The Most Dangerous Man in Europe" genoemd, vanwege zijn bijzonder risicovolle acties als de bevrijding van Mussolini, de ontvoering van de zoon van Admiraal Horthy en een poging om Tito om het leven te brengen.


Door de geallieerden tijdens de oorlog? Of alleen vanwege de geruchten tijdens het Ardennenoffensief en de opgebazen poporties die deze mythe door zijn eigen toedoen na de oorlog kreeg?

Feitelijk stelde Skorzeny namelijk helemaal niet zoveel voor.


di feb 08, 2005 5:37 pm
druidebaron
Bericht 
geert schreef:
Feitelijk stelde Skorzeny namelijk helemaal niet zoveel voor.


Hij had de naam al tijdens de oorlog en dat kwam omdat de bevrijding van Mussolini, de ontvoering de zoon van Admiraal Horthy, en de mislukte moord op Tito (6.000 dode partizanen) waren feitelijk en stelden naar mijn bescheiden mening wel degelijk wat voor.
Tijdens het Ardennenoffensief heeft hij zelf weinig bijgedragen, maar de geruchten dat hij achter Eisenhower aan zat (wat niet waar was), waren voldoende om Eisenhower onder permanente bewaking te zetten. Ze waren wel bang voor hem. Zo is hij aan zijn naam gekomen.


wo feb 09, 2005 12:29 pm
Harro
Bericht 
Het probleem is dat de daden van Skorzeny na de oorlog zijn opgeblazen. Dit schreeef ik enige tijd geleden voor een ander forum...


Revised post:

Citaat:
Otto Skorzeny was the best commando of World War II, If not the best commando of all time. He was born in Austria but as many Austrians (like Hitler) found themselves in Germany.


Otto Skorzeny was a good commando leader and an even better self-publicist! You simply cannot state that he was the best commando leader of all time. The list of superlative commando leaders on both the Axis and Allied sides in WW2 is too long for the purposes of this critique of your post. Skorzeny did not just ‘find himself’ in Germany. A member of the Austrian Nazi Party since 1930, he was a strident advocate of union with Germany, as was his countryman Hitler, who made it happen in 1936.

Citaat:
And a legend was born! When Italy fell Mussolini was captured by Italian partisans and held at a hotel in the mountians with a massive number of guards (I don't know the number please inform me). After two months of a cat and mouse game-- Skorzeny struck! he landed a small team of Waffen SS glider commandos and saved Mussolini with very few shoots being fired.


OK, Skorzeny was told by Hitler to find and rescue Il Duce and he did work out where Mussolini was being held captive but the Gran Sasso rescue mission was actually planned by the Luftwaffe and carried out by regular Luftwaffe Fallschirmjäger of Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 7 who landed by glider on the plateau while another team took control of the cable car. Mussolini was present with twenty-seven members of his SS-Jagdverbänd, having ejected regular Luftwaffe paras from their gliders, to their fury. There were only a couple of dozen Italian guards who surrendered immediately. There is still bitterness amongst the surviving veterans from the FS-Lehr-Rgt over the way Skorzeny claimed all of the credit. He also nearly killed Mussolini and Gerlach by insisting on accompanying them in the Fiesler Storch, which almost fell into the ravine because of the overloading. It was a great public relations coup for the SS and Hitler awarded Mussolini the Knight's Cross. All the World loves a hero...

Citaat:
Otto Skorzeny led yet another dareing mission on May 25 1944 It was to capture Yugoslav partisan leader Tito. The Mission cost 213 Germans killed 881 and 51 were missing. However this was small compared to partisan losses numbering about 6000 died! But Tito sleped away just a few minutes before Otto Skorzeny reached the cave were he set up his HQ.


Skorzeny was not even present at Drvar on May 25th and 26th 1944. The operation was carried out by SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 with attached sub-units of Brandenburger and Luftwaffe specialists. It was the CO of SS-FJ-Btl 500, SS-Hauptsturmführer Kurt Rybka, who managed to reach the mouth of the cave, where he was badly wounded. Skorzeny was in Bosnia beforehand, disguised as a partisan according to his own story, gathering intelligence on Tito’s location. But Tito’s location was no secret! Everyone in the Balkans knew that his HQ was in Drvar! Again, more Skorzeny self-promotion. There were about 6000 partisans in the area but perhaps 2000 died in the battle. Less than 200 of the 830 or so members of the c. 1100-strong SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 were standing when they were relieved on the morning of May 26th. After further anti-partisan operations lasting a couple of weeks, the shattered battalion was withdrawn to Laibach - now known as Ljubjana - and reformed around the survivors and the Feld-Ausbildungs und Ersatz Kompanie based in Kraljevo.

Citaat:
After the assassianation attempt on Hitler Skorzeny played a major role in restoring order among the OKW and OKH and spent 36 in TOTAL command of the mightly Wehrmacht!


I think you are confusing Otto Skorzeny with Otto Remer. If Skorzeny were still alive, he would give you a job as his publicist! However, he did earn his Oakleaves on the Oder Front in the Schwedt and Zehden bridgeheads. He was a brave man even if he was an awful old bullsh1tter. He was also an unrepentant Nazi but at least he wasn't a hypocrite.


wo feb 09, 2005 1:51 pm
Harro
Bericht 
Aaargh. Verkeerde quote (maar desalnietemin een interessante). Dit is de juiste quote over de overtrokken rol van Skorzeny...

Timo schreef:
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
Otto Skorzeny was the best commando of World War II, If not the best commando of all time. He was born in Austria but as many Austrians (like Hitler) found themselves in Germany.

...which other WW2 commando's did you study to be able to compare them with Skorzeny? Your assumption that Skorzeny was the best must be based on some research, right?
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
He tryed to get into the Luftwaffe but was to old. So he turned to the Waffen SS he found a place there a served with one of Germany's best Divisions-- the 1st SS Panzer Division "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler". He saw action in the balkens campaign.

That's quite odd. The Leibstandarte didn't become a Panzer-Division untill October 1943.
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
And soon found himself fighting in the USSR in 1941 and 1942 before he was badly wounded and sent back to Germany. He was awarded a Iron Cross around this time.

...interesting, but average frontline duty does not make him the best commando of all times.
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
And a legend was born!

...a legend. But what about the facts?
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
When Italy fell Mussolini was captured by Italian partisans and held at a hotel in the mountians with a massive number of guards (I don't know the number please inform me). After two months of a cat and mouse game-- Skorzeny struck! he landed a small team of Waffen SS glider commandos and saved Mussolini with very few shoots being fired.

...Yes, few shots were fired. The Italian guards did not put up a fight. Yet 31 German commandos died and 16 were severely wounded. An extremely high casualty rate of 40 percent. And not in battle but from injuries sustained during the glider landings because the planning was an example of amateurism. Luftwaffe experts tried to convince Skorzeny that the plateau was not suitable for gliders to land but he would not listen.
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
Otto Skorzeny led yet another dareing mission on May 25 1944. It was to capture Yugoslav partisan leader Tito. The Mission cost 213 Germans killed 881 and 51 were missing. However this was small compared to partisan losses numbering about 6000 died! But Tito sleped away just a few minutes before Otto Skorzeny reached the cave were he set up his HQ.

...in other words: 213 German killed, 881 wounded and 51 missing. They lost 1145 men in an operation that was a complete failure. 6000 partisan casualties, if that is indeed an accurate figure, cannot hide that fact. The mission was to catch Tito but all they caught was one of his tunics, left in one of the houses of the deserted village.
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
After the assassianation attempt on Hitler Skorzeny played a major role in restoring order among the OKW and OKH and spent 36 in TOTAL command of the mightly Wehrmacht!

...interesting - if true - but not part of his commando achievements.
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
As the war drew to a end Adolf Hitler called apon Otto Skorzeny for a final time. With a Mission to led a team of english speaking Germans into Allied held areas and create havoc during the famous battle of the bulge. These troops worked wonders one team took and acted as MPs guarding a bridge.

...which bridge was this and what use was it for the Germans? Skorzeny had brought 9 sabotage groups (4 men each) across the front line. Two of them were taken prisoner at once, two more, according to Skorzeny, told fairy tales about their deeds after return, and 5 groups, in Skorzeny’s opinion, caused some damage to the American troops. This damage, as he proudly recalls, consisted in cutting two telephone cables, removing a few road pointers and exploding an ammunition depot.
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
Some the soldiers were caught and when asked what their mission was, they said that Otto Skorzeny was leding a commando raid in Paris to kill Eisenhower this was a lie but allied soldiers believe it. and for weeks Eisenhower did not dare leave his quarters which had now been turned into a super fortress.

...and what use was that to the Germans? Did it keep Eisenhower from directing his troops and from winning the battle?
BTW, why did you leave out the failure of moving his Panzers into American held territory and the complete failure of his attack on Malmédy on December 21st? On December 28th Skorzeny’s panzer brigade was sent to the rear for rest.
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
Otto Skorzeny spent the last few days of the war as a acting Major General. Commanding armies in Prussia and Pomerania.

Armies? Which armies did he command? On January 10th, 1945 Skorzeny’s brigade was disbanded. However, the SS battalion "Mitte", the SS paratrooper battalion and the company-sized "Nordwest" battalion remained under his command.
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
He was awarded the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves a great German military award.

...yes, but for what?
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
Otto Skorzeny was one of Das Reichs greatest heroes... In my eye's awarding him the Knight's Cross with Golden Oak Leaves Swords and Demands would be a must if I was Hitler.

LOL


wo feb 09, 2005 3:14 pm
Avatar gebruiker
Gerd

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Bericht 
Heel interessante discussie, Gustav! Heeft uw "oppenent" gereageerd op uw argumenten, want ik kan mij voorstellen dat hij het niet echt eens was met jouw argumentatie?

Gerd


wo feb 09, 2005 7:42 pm
Profiel
Harro
Bericht 
Dat probeerde hij nog wel even...

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12794


wo feb 09, 2005 7:49 pm
Harro
Bericht 
Ik ben trouwens al tijden nieuwsgierig wat 6000 dode "partisanen" waren. Dit in het licht van de Duitse gewoonte om alles en iedereen die in de weg liep als "partisaan" af te doen.


wo feb 09, 2005 7:59 pm
geert
Bericht 
druidebaron schreef:
geert schreef:
Feitelijk stelde Skorzeny namelijk helemaal niet zoveel voor.

eh, sorry maar dat schreef ik helemaal niet, dit hier is mijn eerste post in dit forum..... ????


wo feb 09, 2005 11:03 pm
Barry

Geregistreerd:
zo maart 28, 2004 10:43 pm
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druidebaron schreef:
geert schreef:
Feitelijk stelde Skorzeny namelijk helemaal niet zoveel voor.

eh, sorry maar dat schreef ik helemaal niet, dit hier is mijn eerste post in dit forum..... ????

Klopt helemaal, moest een quote van Gustav zijn :?.

Hopenlijk bij deze rechtgezet.


wo feb 09, 2005 11:40 pm
Profiel
geert
Bericht 
helemaal niet erg hoor, begreep gewoon niet hoe mijn naam in dit onderwerp terecht kwam, ergens een black-out van een of andere pc zeker? :wink:


do feb 10, 2005 12:01 am
Harro
Bericht 
Het was mij nieteens opgevallen dat ze jou mijn woorden in de mond leggen. Imago schade? :mrgreen:


do feb 10, 2005 12:04 am
geert
Bericht 
nee, integendeel :wink:


do feb 10, 2005 12:56 pm
druidebaron
Bericht 
geert schreef:
eh, sorry maar dat schreef ik helemaal niet, dit hier is mijn eerste post in dit forum..... ????

Sorry geert, ik was even in de war met de thread van het bombarderen van burgerdoelen (citeren doe ik handmatig daar het automatisch citeren niet werkt met Opera).

Enfin, ik heb geloof ik heel wat losgemaakt en ik wilde slechts bijnaam toevoegen. Een bijnaam waarvan ik nog steeds van mening ben dat hij deze al tijdens de oorlog had en niet onderdeel is van de mythe die na de oorlog rond Skorzeny ontstaan is.

Gustav, ik ga je niet je hele bericht behandelen, want ik ben 2nd SS Panzer Das Reich ook niet, maar ik zal wel een aantal punten behandelen:

2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
schreef:
When Italy fell Mussolini was captured by Italian partisans and held at a hotel in the mountians with a massive number of guards (I don't know the number please inform me). After two months of a cat and mouse game-- Skorzeny struck! he landed a small team of Waffen SS glider commandos and saved Mussolini with very few shoots being fired
.

Citaat:
...Yes, few shots were fired. The Italian guards did not put up a fight. Yet 31 German commandos died and 16 were severely wounded. An extremely high casualty rate of 40 percent. And not in battle but from injuries sustained during the glider landings because the planning was an example of amateurism. Luftwaffe experts tried to convince Skorzeny that the plateau was not suitable for gliders to land but he would not listen.


De luftwaffe heeft het inderdaad afgewezen als te gevaarlijk, maar wat was een andere optie? Het hotel Campo Imperatore, waar Mussolini verbleef, was slechts bereikbaar via een kabelbaan. Hoe je aan het getal van 31 dooden komt is mij een absoluut raadsel. Bij de actie zelf is een glider niet goed terecht gekomen. Daar zijn gewonden bij zijn gevallen. Er staat een verslag van een van de parachutisten die deelnam aan de actie, Bernd Bosshammer, op http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/bosshammer.htm. Hij spreekt van 7 gewonden, waarvan er een niet meer kon lopen. Hij heeft het niet over doden.
De operatie was in ieder geval succesrijk in de zin dat hij Mussolini heeft bevrijd, gezien de moeilijkheid van de operatie en de risico's verdient dat zeker wel lof.

2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
schreef:
Otto Skorzeny led yet another dareing mission on May 25 1944. It was to capture Yugoslav partisan leader Tito. The Mission cost 213 Germans killed 881 and 51 were missing. However this was small compared to partisan losses numbering about 6000 died! But Tito sleped away just a few minutes before Otto Skorzeny reached the cave were he set up his HQ.


Citaat:
...in other words: 213 German killed, 881 wounded and 51 missing. They lost 1145 men in an operation that was a complete failure. 6000 partisan casualties, if that is indeed an accurate figure, cannot hide that fact. The mission was to catch Tito but all they caught was one of his tunics, left in one of the houses of the deserted village.


Nou, 6000 is waarschijnlijk het juiste aantal, maar hierbij moet ik toegeven dat het Duitse begrip van partizaan nogal ruim was en hieronder zal waarschijnlijk ook een flink aantal burgers zijn meegteld. Nou goed, touche, de operatie was mislukt.

2nd SS Panzer Das Reich schreef:
Some the soldiers were caught and when asked what their mission was, they said that Otto Skorzeny was leding a commando raid in Paris to kill Eisenhower this was a lie but allied soldiers believe it. and for weeks Eisenhower did not dare leave his quarters which had now been turned into a super fortress.


Citaat:
...and what use was that to the Germans? Did it keep Eisenhower from directing his troops and from winning the battle?
BTW, why did you leave out the failure of moving his Panzers into American held territory and the complete failure of his attack on Malmédy on December 21st? On December 28th Skorzeny’s panzer brigade was sent to the rear for rest.


De geruchten over Eisenhower hebben de loop van de oorlog inderdaad niet veranderd, maar dit bevestigt wel zijn bijnaam onder de geallieerden als 'the most dangerous man of Europe'.

Daarbij komt natuurlijk ook nog het succes van de ontvoering van de zoon van Horthy.


vr feb 11, 2005 12:48 am
Harro
Bericht 
druidebaron schreef:
De luftwaffe heeft het inderdaad afgewezen als te gevaarlijk, maar wat was een andere optie? Het hotel Campo Imperatore, waar Mussolini verbleef, was slechts bereikbaar via een kabelbaan. Hoe je aan het getal van 31 dooden komt is mij een absoluut raadsel. Bij de actie zelf is een glider niet goed terecht gekomen. Daar zijn gewonden bij zijn gevallen. Er staat een verslag van een van de parachutisten die deelnam aan de actie, Bernd Bosshammer, op http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/bosshammer.htm. Hij spreekt van 7 gewonden, waarvan er een niet meer kon lopen. Hij heeft het niet over doden.
De operatie was in ieder geval succesrijk in de zin dat hij Mussolini heeft bevrijd, gezien de moeilijkheid van de operatie en de risico's verdient dat zeker wel lof.

Mogelijk, maar dan lof als Luftwaffe operatie. Voor cijfers over slachtoffers: zie verderop in deze reactie.
druidebaron schreef:
Nou, 6000 is waarschijnlijk het juiste aantal, maar hierbij moet ik toegeven dat het Duitse begrip van partizaan nogal ruim was en hieronder zal waarschijnlijk ook een flink aantal burgers zijn meegteld. Nou goed, touche, de operatie was mislukt.

Precies.
druidebaron schreef:
De geruchten over Eisenhower hebben de loop van de oorlog inderdaad niet veranderd, maar dit bevestigt wel zijn bijnaam onder de geallieerden als 'the most dangerous man of Europe'.

Aha. Geruchten die niets met de werkelijkheid van doen hebben.
druidebaron schreef:
Daarbij komt natuurlijk ook nog het succes van de ontvoering van de zoon van Horthy.

Is dat zo? Een fragment...
Citaat:
In September 1944 a new order came. Skorzeny had to remove the Hungarian regent Horthy from Budapest, because Hitler suspected him of intending to surrender to Germany’s enemies. For Skorzeny such a mission – a transport operation – wasn’t new, and he quickly demanded and became three battalions and gliders (Skorzeny couldn’t do anything without gliders).
Skorzeny went to Budapest to prepare for the operation. There he he took his residence in a luxurious house with numerous servants and lived, as he subsequently with pleasure recalled, with unheard-of magnificence. And not a day or two, but a month. Skorzeny never hurried with carrying out his tasks, even if he got them from Hitler.
On October 16th, 1944 Skorzeny with his battalions and 8 “Panther” tanks attacked the building in Budapest, where he thought Horthy was. But it turned out that the Hungarian regent wasn’t there. The Germans had lost 4 men, 12 had been wounded. The Hungarians – 3 lost and 15 wounded.
And Horthy was meanwhile with a German general in another place, not thinking of escape or playing some other mean trick on the Germans. After a couple of days he flied to Bavaria on Hitler’s invitation.

Ik baseer mijn post op informatie van ondermeer Patty Keating en Mark Yerger. Veel “feiten” over Skorzeny moeten worden bijgesteld nadat de archieven van achter het IJzeren Gordijn nieuwe informatie prijsgaven over zijn acties.

Post van “All-Seeing Eye” op het AHF. Zijn vertaling van de samenvatting van een Russisch onderzoek waaruit ook het citaat over Horty komt…

Citaat:
“The Super-Saboteur Otto Skorzeny”
They call him the “Nazi terrorist #1”, a “super-saboteur”, a “secret operation ace”. But why has Otto Skorzeny deserved such pompous titles?
In fact, this world-famous Austrian hasn’t done anything in his life, which could be included into the annals of secret operations, sabotage or terrorism. Or rather, he hasn’t done anything which could be considered a successful act of terror or sabotage.
Otto Skorzeny was born on June 12th, 1908. Entered the Technical University of Vienna in 1926. Student Skorzeny wasn’t interested in politics. Only once he took part in a demonstration calling to the unification of Germany and Austria, although such official demonstrations were held in his country annually since 1918.
In 1931 Skorzeny graduated from the Technical University and got fixed up in a job in a small construction firm. In summer 1932, like many Germans at that time, he entered the NSDAP. He didn’t become an activist – just visited party meetings and paid membership fees. In June 1933 NSDAP’s activities in Austria were forbidden, and this put an end to Skorzeny’s “political activity”.
Up to September 3rd, 1939 Skorzeny worked as an engineer in a construction firm. When the German-Polish war began, he was drafted and sent to a training unit for obtaining a pioneer speciality. So, with him being 31, began the military career of the future “super-saboteur”. A very strange career in the sense of its credibility.
In December 1939 Skorzeny – as he asserts in his memoirs - was enlisted as a pioneer into the reserve battalion of the division “Leibstandarte-SS Adolf Hitler”. That’s very strange, because Austrians were at that time enlisted into the SS regiment “Der Fuehrer”, which had been created specially for them; besides, Leibstandarte became a division only in 1941.
In May 1940, after finishing his pioneer training (for some reason already not in the Leibstandarte, but in “Germania” regiment), Skorzney received a driver speciality and was promoted to SS-Uschaf.
It’s quite explainable, that Skorzeny as a rookie didn’t take part in the war against Poland, because it had ended very quickly. But according to his memories, he didn’t take part in the French campaign also, which began just after he has finished his driver training. Although he has been with some rear transport units in France.
The Skorzeny writes that at the end of March 1941 his division, which he calls “Das Reich”, was transferred from France to the southwest of Romania, to the Yugoslavian border. At the same time, as he states, he was promoted to SS-Ustuf.
The SS division “Das Reich” took part only in the capture of Belgrade, and Skorzeny – if he really served in that division – had again acquired no battle experience, because the Yugoslavs had surrendered quickly and almost without fighting. Belgrade was captured by a German reconnaissance squad without a single shot on the 7th day of war, and the whole campaign lasted only 12 days (the Germans lost just 151 men, including non-battle casualties).
In the middle of July, Skorzney writes, his division was transferred to Poland – to the border with the USSR south of Brest-Litovsk. The Skorzeny states, that he, with his division, took part in the assault on Brest fortress!
In reality, Brest fortress wasn’t assaulted by “Das Reich”, but by th 45th infantry division of the Wehrmacht (btw, this division was made up of Austrians, because it had been part of the Austrian army before the Anschluss, but it had nothing to do with the SS). “Das Reich” division of the SS was part of the reserve of Guderian’s 2nd panzer group – the 46th motorised corps, located 50-80 km from the border. Its task was to move in the second echelon of the panzer group in the direction north of Brest.
In the next half-year Skorzeny (who, according to his words, now was serving in an artillery battalion) has described only one feat of his – how he, with a group of 5 soldiers and a roll of telephone cable, went to the rear of the division to re-establish intercommunication with it (why the regualr signalmen couldn’t do it, he doesn’t explain). In August 1941 Skorzeny was placed in a hospital with dysentery and got the Iron Cross 2nd class (apparently, for his cable roll feat).
In December 1941, just as the Moscow counteroffensive of the Red Army had begun, Skorzeny was in proper time attacked by a “brutal inflammation of the gall-bladder”. He was sent for treatment not jsu anywhere, but to his native Vienna. So his front career ended happily for him.
After treatment in Vienna up to spring 1942, Skorzeny didn’t go back to the front, but found himself in a reserve regiment in Berlin. After a half-year of easy (according to Skorzeny’s words, just dull) service in the Reich’s capital, he applied for panzer officer courses, as he asserts.
But after the courses he, for some reason, again didn’t go to the front. Instead, he was only in April 1943 called to the staff of the Waffen-SS, where they said to him, they needed an officer with an engineer education for creation of some special unit.
Skorzeny explains, that a year before the RSHA had founded a special training camp “Oranienburg”. This company-sized unit had to compete with the Abwehr-controlled special regiment “Brandenburg”, that is, to carry out sabotage tasks.
As Skorzeny states, the Waffen-SS command proposed him as a commander of an RSHA sabotage unit, because he “had battle experience and technical knowledge”. So there weren’t any better candidates for such an important post in all the Waffen-SS, than Skorzeny, who hadn’t shown his worth in any way. And the Waffen-SS counted at that time 300000 men, including 10000 officers.

Citaat:
Skorzney was promoted to SS-Hstuf d.R. and replaced as commander of the special camp “Oranienburg” a Dutch SS officer, who had been sent to the Eastern front.
At that time 20 SS men in this training camp were preparing for the operation “Franz” – organizing Iranian tribe rebellions, so that the tribes would attack military transport routes to the USSR, through which goods from the US and UK were transported.
The operation ended with a complete failure in summer 1943 – the Iranian tribe leaders first gladly accepted expensive gifts from the Germans, and then gave them (the Germans) up to the authorities, for a price.
But this failure didn’t affect the career of Skorzeny, who had been in charge of the operation. As he serenely remarks, “soon I had to manage even more interesting tasks”.
Skorzeny was ordered to prepare the operation “Ulm” – carrying out acts of sabotage at the industrial plants of Ural. On August 5th, 1943 the special camp “Oranienburg” was renamed to special unit “Friedental”, counting 3 companies. The aim of the operation “Ulm” was defined concretely – take out the blast-furnaces of the Magnitogorsk metallurgical works.
Skorzeny, according to his words, understood very soon that this mission was completely impossible. He was going to report it to his superiors. But the RSHA officers, having learned about Skorzeny’s intentions, just laughed at him. He was told, that in the RSHA you just had to show great enthusiasm at any order and regularly report about the successful preparations for the operation.
The “super-saboteur” Skorzeny took note of that friendly advice and successfully delayed the operation for 1.5 years - up to the end of 1944, when it was cancelled.
Skorzeny, according to his memoirs, had to feel pretty nervous already on July 26th, 1943, though, when he was suddenly called to the Fuehrer’s HQ. He was quite worried, because he thought that this call was connected with the operation “Ulm”. That is, with him having done nothing about it. This is one more contradiction in Skorzeny’s service record – as he describes it. On July 26th, 1943 he didn’t yet have to worry about “Ulm”.
Fearing punishment for his inactivity, Skorzeny, as he recalls, asked the pilots for cognac to relax while flying to Hitler’s HQ. But his fear was unfounded. Hitler had summoned him and five officers more (a Heer colonel and major, two air force lt.colonels and an SS-Sturmbannfuehrer) on quite a different occasion.
Hitler wanted to organize a rescue of the overthrown Mussolini.
This action didn’t have any military significanse.
Italy, where American and British troops had landed, decided to quit the ranks of Germany’s allies. Hitler apparently didn’t want to leave the overthrown Duce to the mercy of an inevitable trial: Mussolini’s execution or detention could affect the moral of the German people – or rather Hitler’s own authority – very badly.
So, Hitler decided to select the organizer of this transportation. His criteria were rather curious.
Hitler asked the six officers, if any of them had been to Italy. It turned out that Skorzeny had been there – once.
Hitler’s second question – “what do you know about Italy?” The officers started saying general phrases, like “it’s our ally”. But Skorzeny answered briefly, showing his incredible stupidity: “I’m an Austrian, my Fuehrer!” As he explains in his memoirs, he meant he didn’t like Italy for the annexation of German-populated South Tyrol.
The most amusing thing is that Hitler considered that Skorzeny’s stupid answer was the most satisfactory one. That a guy who didn’t like Italy was just right for saving its former ruler. As a result, Hitler chose Skorzeny to be the executor of this transport operation.
As you see, Hitler wasn’t interested in his professional qualities.
Skorzeny gives in his memoirs a detailed description of the briefing given to him and general Student (commander of a paratrooper army) by the Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler. The briefing’s inanity is also incredible.
Himmler, for some strange reason, began telling Skorzeny and Student about the political situation in Italy, naming hundreds of people from the upper classes who would – or wouldn’t – remain loyal to Germany. At that, he allegedly demanded to learn all this by heart. Of course, all this “top secret” information couldn’t have been useful in an ordinary transport operation.
However, all this nonsense fades when compared to the further actions connected with that operation. A whole German paratrooper division was transferred to Italy just for that purpose! Then, already in the middle of August, Skorzeny demanded to additionally involve an SS brigade into the operation! And apart from it, a flotilla of torpedo boats and several mine-sweepers!
However ridiculous this could be, but Hitler personally handed all those forces to some Hauptsturmfuehrer (that is, just an infantry captain, a newly-made battalion commander, who hadn’t shown his worth in any way). Stupidity indeed has no borders!
Soon, however, Skorzeny personally found out that no ships for Duce’s transportation would be needed, because he was held not on the coast, as Skorzeny had thought, but on the contrary, in the mountains.
Then Skorzeny (a great specialst!) decided to arrange a troop landing in the mountains with the help of gliders! Vainly had real specialists from the air force tried to explain the ignoramus that it would only lead to great casualties – not battle, but traumatic ones.
Nevertheless, Skorzeny insisted upon 12 gliders, each carrying a pilot and nine soldiers, taking part in the operation. What’s even more incredible, Skorzeny ordered to equip the soldiers not with absolutley normal German MP-42’s, but with English STAN’s – an easy to produce, but a rather poor-quality weapon.
Naturally, such a stupid choice of landing means made by Skorzeny led to considerable casualties. The operation was carried out on September 12th, 1943 (that is, they had been preparing for 1.5 months, and in this period nothing had happened to Mussolini!). From the 12 gliders two crashed during takeoff, two more – during the landing. The remaining 8 gliders also couldn’t land smoothly on a rocky plateau.

Citaat:
As a result, 31 soldier perished, 16 were heavily injured. That is, casualties – at that, not battle ones – totalled 40%, solely because of Skorzeny’s amateurishness. As the German general Tippelskirch rightly wrote in his “History of the Second World War”, it was an “adventurous operation, which brought many victims”.
And the English submachine guns Skorzeny’s “eagles” hadn’t needed at all – the Italians in the mountain villa weren’t going to put up any resistance. More than that – would that operation have been led by a cleverer man, he would’ve just arranged it with the Italian guards, paid them a certain sum and got the Duce out without any casualties.
And for such a talentless operation Skorzeny was awarded the Knight’s Cross by Hitler and promoted to SS-Stubaf. Although he should’ve been rather degraded to a corporal and sent to a funeral team.
Skorzeny’s next mission was also a transport operation. In October 1943 Hitler began to suspect that Marshal Petaine, ruler of surrendered France, was going to flee to North Africa. Skorzeny was ordered to prepare Petaine’s transportation from Vichy (at that time “capital” of France) to Paris. Naturally, this operation didn’t have any military significanse, as well as Mussolini’s rescue.
Skorzeny didn’t even describe a general plan of this operation in his memoirs. He pointed out, however, that he had demanded and received two infantry battalions of the SS division “Hohenstaufen”, two police battalions and three infantry companies as reserve (?). At that Skorzeny admits that in case of the actual conducting of the operation all his forces would’ve been opposed only by a few hundred French National guardsmen, armed with light rifles.
Two months long Skorzeny hanged about in Vichy, which had been a resort before the war. On December 2nd, 1943 the operation was cancelled, after which Skorzeny got a vacation. He spent it with his wife and daughter at another resort, where he skied a bit.
In February 1944 Skorzeny got a new task. By Himmler’s order, a small group of soldiers from Skorzeny’s sabotage battalion had to render assistance in training the personnel of a new marine (?) sabotage diver-unit. And Skorzeny’s saboteurs hadn’t shown their worth in any way yet.
In summer 1944 a “brilliant” idea occurred to Skorzeny. He decided to turn an unmanned flying bomb V-1 into a manned one!
The primary idea of this weapon had been replacing and excelling long-range artillery. The advantages of a flying bomb before bomber aircraft are the possibility of mass production and no casualties. Its lack is lower accuracy.
Skorzeny’s “brilliant” idea (he himslef admitted, that he didn’t have aircraft-engineering education, he was an architect) consisted in throwing the advantages of the flying bombs away, but making them more accurate – the pilot would have to direct them himself at the end of the flight.
Turning V-1 into a manned aircraft naturally made its production more complicated and expensive, and flying it supposed if not death, than capture of a qualified pilot. As for the accuracy, only a handful of flying bombs, even manned ones, could reach the goal: they were very vulnerable for fighter aircraft and anti-aircraft guns; besides, many of them expolded during takeoff. And in a manned V-1 the pilot still wouldn’t have been able to evade the enemy fire, because the performance attributes of V-1 didn’t allow it.
This idea of Skorzeny can’t be called otherwise as sabotage of the flying bombs program. The “super-saboteur” himself has admitted he resorted to lies to push through his crazy idea.
Skorzeny came to Goering (actually GFM Milch – P.S.) and told him that his project had been allegedly approved of by the Fuehrer. Goering hesitated, seeing that Skorzeny was proposing total crap, but gave the go-ahead – against the name of Hitler even he couldn’t raise an objection.
Of course, the first test-flights resulted in crashes. But this didn’t stop Skorzeny (he wasn’t going to fly). Not only did he see to it, that 175 V-1’s were altered into his useless toys, but also that 60 men were made pilots of those things. As Skorzeny assured, 30 men from his sabotage battalion were included in this kamikaze team. That’s just beyond good and evil – to enroll people who’ve got nothing to do with aircraft in piloting.
This shame was stopped by the air force lt.colonel Baumbach, who had been in November 1944 appointed commander of the unit, where Skorzeny had been experimenting. Lt.colonel Baumbach just said it was sheer madness, ordered no to provide fuel for it, and Skorzeny preferred to retreat, because his phantasies weren’t sanctioned by his superiors.
One more “brilliant” idea of Skorzeny – taking out the oil pipe-lines in the Middle East. He suggested to do it in the following way: cut a hole in the pipe, place a mine there and “immediately close the opening”. Why it hadn’t occurred to him just to blow up the pipe – well, that must’ve seemed to him a too easy solution unworthy of his engineer education.
However, this phantasy of Skorzeny also wasn’t realized. As he says, he wasn’t provided with airplanes for the operation.
Skorzeny’s next task was to eliminate Tito’s HQ in Yugoslavia. According to the “super-saboteur”, he had got the task at the beginning of 1944 and collected all the needed information by summer.
The operation was carried out in Skorzeny’s traditional style – landidng of a paratropper battalion and a glider descent. As a result, the soldiers got Tito’s tunic, left in one of the houses of a deserted village.
In September 1944 a new order came. Skorzeny had to remove the Hungarian regent Horthy from Budapest, because Hitler suspected him of intending to surrender to Germany’s enemies. For Skorzeny such a mission – a transport operation – wasn’t new, and he quickly demanded and became three battalions and gliders (Skorzeny couldn’t do anything without gliders).
Skorzeny went to Budapest to prepare for the operation. There he he took his residence in a luxurious house with numerous servants and lived, as he subsequently with pleasure recalled, with unheard-of magnificence. And not a day or two, but a month. Skorzeny never hurried with carrying out his tasks, even if he got them from Hitler.
On October 16th, 1944 Skorzeny with his battalions and 8 “Panther” tanks attacked the building in Budapest, where he thought Horthy was. But it turned out that the Hungarian regent wasn’t there. The Germans had lost 4 men, 12 had been wounded. The Hungarians – 3 lost and 15 wounded.
And Horthy was meanwhile with a German general in another place, not thinking of escape or playing some other mean trick on the Germans. After a couple of days he flied to Bavaria on Hitler’s invitation.

It’s curious, that this time Skorzeny again wasn’t sent to a funeral team. On the contrary, Hitler for some reason awarded him with a Cross in Gold and promoted him to Ostubaf.
On October 21st, 1944 Skorzeny was ordered by Hitler to prepare a sabotage operation – capturing bridges in the coming Ardennes counteroffensive of the Germans. Hitler ordered to complete all the preparations to December 2nd. Skorzeny’s saboteurs were to act in enemy uniform.
Using Hitler’s carte blanche, Skorzeny decided to raise a panzer brigade counting 3300 men and including two panzer companies, two armoured car companies, three motorized infantry battalions and artillery, anti-tank and other units.
Skorzeny wanted to provide these units with captured (American) vehicles, outfit his soldiers with American uniforms and arm them with American weapons. As they were to operate in the rear of American troops, Skorzeny wanted to recruit as much English-speakers as possible.
Probably for the first time Skorzeny was planning something worth doing. But he failed again.
He got only two American tanks (one of which wasn’t functioning), ten armored cars, fifteen trucks and thirty jeeps. Lack of the trophy vehicles was filled up with “Panther” tanks, StuG’s and German trucks which were painted like American ones.
The brigade got only half of the needed trophy rifles. But, as Skorzeny writes, the ammunition exploded because of mishandling, and as a result only one company could be equipped with American SMG’s. It’s amazing, how bad luck always followed the “super-saboteur”.
There also arose problems with uniform. First, British uniforms came, then American greatcoats instead of tunics, then finally tunics, but with POW insignia.
With English the matters also stood poorly. There were only about ten soldiers in the brigade, who could speak English more or less well, they mostly came from the marine. 30-40 soldiers more (also mostly marines) could say something in English. The rest could only portray deaf and dumb Americans.
Skorzeny admitted in his memoirs, that even the company equipped with American weapons – he called it “commando” and it had to play the main role in the operation – had no professional saboteurs.

Citaat:
The Ardennes offensive began on December 16th, 1944. It was developing quite well, but Skorzeny immediately reported that his brigade’s operation should be postponed. On December 19th the command asked Skorzeny if he could capture Malmedy with his brigade. Skorzeny said he would try, but not earlier than on the 21st of December.
Meanwhile, Skorzeny had brought 9 sabotage groups (4 men each) across the front line. Two of them were taken prisoner at once, two more, according to Skorzeny, told fairy tales about their deeds after return, and 5 groups, in Skorzeny’s opinion, caused some damage to the American troops. This damage, as he proudly recalls, consisted in cutting two telephone cables, removing a few road pointers and exploding an ammunition depot.
On December 21st Skorzeny, true to his word, tried to capture Malmedy. An assault with tanks and infantry failed, and Skorzeny declared to the command that he needed supplementary artillery. Then the “super-saboteur” devoted himself to a more vital problem – search of a New Year tree and organizing a party for his staff.
On December 28th Skorzeny’s panzer brigade was sent to the rear for rest.
On Decemer 31st Skorzeny met Hitler in his HQ for the last time. According to Skorzeny, the Fuehrer didn’t react upon the idleness of Skorzeny ‘s brigade during the Ardennes offensive in any way. He just shared with him his grandiose plans for the counteroffensive in southeastern Europe.
On January 10th, 1945 Skorzeny’s brigade was disbanded. However, the SS battalion “Center”, SS paratrooper battalion and the “Nordwest” battalion (company-sized) remained under Skorzeny’s command.
On January 30th, 1945 Skorzeny was ordered by Himmler to set off with his three battalions for Schwedt-an-der-Oder. There three reserve infantry battalions, one pioneer, three artillery and two Volkssturm battalions were placed under the command of the “super-saboteur”.
Skorzeny now had to fight not as a saboteur (in which he never succeeded), but as a ground “warlord”. According to Skorzeny, his troops were named division “Schwedt”. In his memoirs Skorzeny asserts that in February 1945 his troops fought a violent battle with a Soviet guard panzer corps.
In fact, really serious battles, even the German counteroffensive, took place up to the end of the war far to the north of Schwedt. And Skorzeny had nothing to do with them.
Apart from that, Skorzeny, according to his words, was ordered to return to Berlin already on Febrauary 28th, 1945. Return alone, without his “celebrated saboteurs”. Skorzeny had been a “military commander” for four weeks.
In March 1945, according to Skorzeny, he was ordered to destroy a bridge over the Rhein near the town Remagen, which (the bridge) had been captured by the Americans. Skorzeny’s story about that operation arouses total perplexity.
Earlier he claimed that all his saboteurs had stayed at the front, in Schwedt. Now, so his story, his “frogmen” arrived from Vienna (?!) and at a “frosty night” at the end of March (?!) “dived into the icy waters of Rhein”.
How or in what those saboteurs were swimming, Skorzeny hasn’t explained. But he admitted that many of them were killed by American fire. And, not even having reached the bridge, the “frogs” found out that the Americans had built a few pontoon bridges over the Rhein. Skorzeny claims that the few surviving saboteurs had somehow mined some pontoons, after which they all were taken prisoner. But they had allegedly caused some damage to the bridges.
Something is definitely wrong with Skorzeny’s memory. For in the same book, written by him (not an aged man, but 41-year old) just 4 years after the described events (if they really have taken place), he suddenly writes again about his last meeting with Hitler, which now takes place not on December 31st, 1944, but allegedly at the end of March 1945. And of course, Hitler – as Skorzeny asserts – awarded him the Oak Leaves to the Knight’s Cross.
On March 31st, 1945 Skorzeny went (according to his words, by order) to the so-called “Alpine Fortress” in the mountains at the Bavarian-Austrian border, where he sticked around up to May 15th.
Skorzeny turned out to be as elusive as the famous Uncatchable Joe, whom no one ever tried to catch. So on May 15th Skorzeny himself asked the Americans to finally take him prisoner.
In July 1948 Skorzeny escaped easily. And was never caught, although he didn’t hide.
The Uncatchable Joe. Or, to be more exact, - the Uncatchable Otto. For the competent people knew perfectly that Skorzeny was no “Nazi terrorist #1” or “super-saboteur” or “secret operation ace”.
He was just a super-chatterbox, who was good at avoiding dangers – above all, those of the front. And an ace of deceit – of misleading his superiors with his “super-ideas”. And a liar #1 – in making his complete failures look like unheard-of successes. In a sense, a really outstanding character.


vr feb 11, 2005 6:44 am
druidebaron
Bericht 
Gustav schreef:
Mogelijk, maar dan lof als Luftwaffe operatie



Ho wacht even, we hebben het hier dus over een operatie die door de Luftwaffe is afgeraden, door Skorzeny is doorgezet, maar de Luftwaffe toch alle lof voor moeten krijgen?

Gustav schreef:
Aha. Geruchten die niets met de werkelijkheid van doen hebben.

Het waren wel geruchten die de geallieerden aardig op de kast kregen. Fat ze bang voor hem waren blijkt wel uit een artikel uit de New York Times van 18 mei 1945. In het artikel getiteld, 'Nazi's arch-killer captured by Yanks', wordt Skorzent als volgt omschreven: "A man regarded by our armies as potentially the most dangerous leader of guerrilla in vanquished Germany was being held tonight for investigation". (...) Lieut. Col. Otto Skorzeny, the lean, ruthless Nazi killer who last winter planned to assassinate Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, has been captured (...) According ro American reports, Skorzeny and his accomplices traveled in six command cars, dressed a British officers.(...) It was at this time that the militairy police imposed one of the most strictly enforced curfews of the war on entire Paris area and all militair traffic nearing the city was halted and the occupants subjected to thorough search". Pas 21 mei 1945 werd bekend dat het slechts een gerucht was. Dit laat echter wel zien dat ze benauwd voor Skorzeny waren, vandaar de bijnaam.

Jij baseert je op een bericht van iemand op een forum die iets vertaald heeft van een Russische webpagina. Op de deze pagina staat geen auteur. Het stuk zelf staat vol fouten, tegenstrijdigheden en voor het gemak laat de auteur een aantal zaken weg. Een aantal voorbeelden. Ik begin weer met Mussolini:
Over de 31 doden heb ik het al gehad, die waren er niet. Het alternatief:
Citaat:
More than that – would that operation have been led by a cleverer man, he would’ve just arranged it with the Italian guards, paid them a certain sum and got the Duce out without any casualties.

Alsof alle Italianen corrupt zijn en om te kopen zijn, geloof je het zelf. Dat de Italianen geen weerstand boden was volgens Bosshammer omdat ze compleet verrast waren: "There were many soldiers in front of the hotel, but they did not look dangerous or alarmed. They thought we were English or American soldiers who wanted to pick up Mussolini."

Citaat:
In October 1943 Hitler began to suspect that Marshal Petaine, ruler of surrendered France, was going to flee to North Africa. Skorzeny was ordered to prepare Petaine’s transportation from Vichy (at that time “capital” of France) to Paris. Naturally, this operation didn’t have any military significanse, as well as Mussolini’s rescue.
Skorzeny didn’t even describe a general plan of this operation in his memoirs. He pointed out, however, that he had demanded and received two infantry battalions of the SS division “Hohenstaufen”, two police battalions and three infantry companies as reserve (?). At that Skorzeny admits that in case of the actual conducting of the operation all his forces would’ve been opposed only by a few hundred French National guardsmen, armed with light rifles.
Two months long Skorzeny hanged about in Vichy, which had been a resort before the war. On December 2nd, 1943 the operation was cancelled, after which Skorzeny got a vacation. He spent it with his wife and daughter at another resort, where he skied a bit.

In 1943 was Vichy al niet meer de hoofdstad van Frankrijk. Na de geallieerde landingen in Noord-Afrika had Hitler opdracht gegeven tot operatie Anton, de bezetting van Vichy Frankrijk. Dat was al op 10 november 1942. Volgens mij ging het ook niet om de ontvoering van Petain, maar juist bevrijding in het geval er een burgeroorlog in Frankrijk uit zou breken.Een dergelijk operatie diende misschien geen direct militair belang, maar was politiek zeker wel belangrijk.

Citaat:
In September 1944 a new order came. Skorzeny had to remove the Hungarian regent Horthy from Budapest, because Hitler suspected him of intending to surrender to Germany’s enemies. For Skorzeny such a mission – a transport operation – wasn’t new, and he quickly demanded and became three battalions and gliders (Skorzeny couldn’t do anything without gliders).
Skorzeny went to Budapest to prepare for the operation. There he he took his residence in a luxurious house with numerous servants and lived, as he subsequently with pleasure recalled, with unheard-of magnificence. And not a day or two, but a month. Skorzeny never hurried with carrying out his tasks, even if he got them from Hitler.
On October 16th, 1944 Skorzeny with his battalions and 8 “Panther” tanks attacked the building in Budapest, where he thought Horthy was. But it turned out that the Hungarian regent wasn’t there. The Germans had lost 4 men, 12 had been wounded. The Hungarians – 3 lost and 15 wounded.
And Horthy was meanwhile with a German general in another place, not thinking of escape or playing some other mean trick on the Germans. After a couple of days he flied to Bavaria on Hitler’s invitation.


Wederom verdraait de onbekende historicus de feiten. Hij suggereert alsof Skorzeny een maand lang vakantie had in Boedapest, maar bij een staatsgreep gaat men niet over een nacht ijs. Het was Winkelmann die op 6 oktober besloot om tot actie over te gaan. Op 15 oktober wist Skorzeny de zoon van Horthy en zijn vriend Bornemissza te ontvoeren in operatie Maus en hem per vliegtuig naar het concentratiekamp Mauthausen te brengen. Hiermee werd Horthy onder druk gezet om plaats te maken voor een pro-nazi regime: horthy schrijft in zijn memoires:
"The Palace was in a state of siege. The approaches had been mined, incidentally isolating the German Embassy on the Palace Hill. As we learned during the night, the German attack on the Palace had been timed for the early hours of the morning of October 16th(17).

"We had just lain down, fully dressed, when Lieutenant Field Marshal Vattay, Chief of the Military Chancellery, and Ambrózy, head of the Cabinet Chancellery, were announced. They had come to deliver the message that the Fuehrer 'offered' me asylum, provided I abdicated, relinquished all powers, and surrendered the Palace. I refused this 'offer' and emphatically told the messengers that I was not to be approached again concerning this matter." Later bedenkt hij:

Yet, what was the sense of allowing the situation to develop into a fight? In view of the enemy's superior strength in men and artillery, we had nothing to oppose to their armoured vehicles, a fight could lead only to the decimation of our faithful Guards. Though I had been unable to achieve my aim of bringing peace to Hungary, my radio proclamation had nevertheless proved to the world that Hungary was not willingly submitting to occupation. But I intended to ask no one to lay down his life for me. I therefore ordered that no resistance should be made. This order failed to reach only one unit in the Palace park, a unit that was commanded by the son of the former Premier, Kállay. Shots were fired, and four German soldiers were killed(18). Andreas Kállay(19) was taken prisoner and sent to Dachau.
De vier doden kwamen ook nog voort uit een misverstand:
The commanders of the opposing German and Hungarian forces agreed the night before not to start hostilities, and to meet at 10 AM. the next day. The Hungarian Guards laid out a mine-field in the approach routes to the Palace. By accident, a lamplighter of the gas street lamps, named Mihály Rekenye, while doing his rounds caused a mine to explode.He survived, with his clothing torn off. Both opponents believed that the other started an attack, and a firefight ensued. (Bokor: Deadend..., op. cit.; p.264.)
Dat Horthy niet in het paleis aanwezig was, kon Skorzeny niet weten. Horthy was kort daarvoor vertrokken op aandringen van Dr. Vreesenmeijer:
"Shortly before 6 a.m., Dr. Veesenmayer appeared and asked me to go to the Hatvany Palace, "to spare me the pain of seeing the occupation of the Royal Palace". That, I thought, was a definite, if courteous, form of arrest. On our arrival at the Hatvany Palace, the headquarters of the SS, Dr. Veesenmayer said, "Here Your Highness is under the Fuehrer's protection"

"I was to leave the Palace before 6 a.m., as it was not certain that the attack on the Palace timed for that hour could be countermanded. A peaceful solution had been regarded as no longer possible at the Fuehrer's headquarters"

Het paleis diende als zetel van de macht vanzelfsprekend wel bezt te worden.

Ik kan nog wel verder gaan, maar het lijkt me duidelijk dat aan de woorden van de onbekende historicus niet al te veel waarde moet worden gehecht.


zo feb 13, 2005 8:24 pm
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